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tl;dr: I didn't like "Death in Heaven".


I have to admit that I didn’t have the best of attitudes going into the second part of the finale. I did have Missy spoiled (stupid Internet!) 30 minutes before watching “Dark Water” and so the reveal didn’t have any impact, and the character really hadn’t gelled yet, so I wasn’t sure if I liked her or not. But that really wasn’t here or there. The main thing was that Clara had continued to be completely unlikable and Danny completely uninteresting, except for the moment where he rejects Clara’s pleas and says “I love you” for the final time - that was a completely stud-out moment, and made him worthy for the first time the entire season. But Clara… Hoo boy. Attempting to force the Doctor to try to bring Danny back, without even asking him first? And then forcing him by blackmail? You might argue that she was deep in mourning and rather unhinged, but even in those circumstances, it's hardly an endearing action, to threaten to (and then actually do) ruin her friend's (her best friend, she says later) life to get him to do something. She's lucky the Doctor's an alien, because most humans would have walked out on her at that point.

But there was a lot more to dislike in "Dark Water". Danny's encounter with the boy he killed while in the army was emotionally tepid, and in general, the Nethersphere scenes were mostly for tugging on heartstrings. The Doctor didn't do much of anything throughout the episode, not even being able to detect that Missy was a Time Lady, either by the innate sense mentioned many times in previous seasons or by placing his hand on her chest and feeling her heartbeat. On the other hand, the episode ended with Cybermen emerging from underground in London, which, while making me squeal, "I was there last month!" also promised some action in the second part. I try not to watch trailers, but I did see Kate Stewart and Osgood in it, and the promise of UNIT meant that while the first part was middling, the second part could be a lot of fun. So, my attitude going in was part good, part bad.

Halfway through "Death in Heaven", I wasn't sure if the bad attitude was coloring my enjoyment of the episode. Now, I think I'm pretty sure that the episode was just bad.

The opening scene starts with the Doctor confused as the Cybermen walk around, non-menacing, with the Londoners thinking they're cool and trying to take selfies with them. Remember that Cybermen are not unknown: they attacked the entire world in "Doomsday", being shown in Paris and by the Taj Mahal, to name a couple of places. Thus, the really strange and unbelievable speech by the Doctor in "In the Forest of the Night" (oh, don't get me started on *that* episode) about the humans forgetting about the global sprouting of the trees actually had a point: it was to explain why the people this time don't recognize the Cybermen.

Meanwhile, Clara is confronted by three Cybermen, and to not get killed immediately, she claims she's actually the Doctor. The showrunners decided at this point to try to convince the audience of this, by putting Jenna Coleman's name first in the opening credits and featuring her face in the time vortex instead of Peter Capaldi's, and you have to wonder, why? Were they trying to capitalize on the notoriety of the Master's gender change? Did they really think the audience would be fooled for a moment? The devoted fan would immediately realize it can't be true - as recently as in "The Day of the Doctor", the anomalies and paradoxes caused by two incarnations meeting themselves are shown to be very dangerous, so there's no way two incarnations could be traveling together for years - and the casual viewer would simply be confused. To me, it basically reinforced the idea that what we've been watching for the past four months isn't Doctor Who, but instead The Clara Show.

So, it wasn't a fortuitous start, and the episode didn't get better from there.

First, there was no action. At all. The Cybermen never attacked. The Doctor did nothing but stand around and either listen to someone talking or talk himself. The Master just talked. But it's even worse: the entire conflict was presented, explained, and resolved with words. The Doctor honestly did nothing, spending much of his time sitting in a chair drinking tea. He did have to make the final decision and come up with the flash of brilliance that would save the day, but that was the end of his involvement in the entire plot. Come to think of it, he pretty much just talked in the first part, too.

But that's okay - we can have a good episode with no action. The action parts of “Dalek”, “Vincent and the Doctor”, “Human Nature” / “Family of Blood” and “The Doctor’s Wife” are not the good parts. So was the non-action in this episode good? No. Again, it was saddled with melodrama and heavy-handed themes.

There’s Clara and Danny. Again, Cybermen fail to completely take over a human because of the power of love. It was done in “Closing Time” and it was the reason that episode failed, the unbelievability that of the thousands, even millions of people the Cybermen have managed to convert, only one person loved his child enough to resist them. Yet, they did it again here. Danny, for some reason, is the one person in all of human history (since it’s made clear the Master has been doing this for centuries) who loves his girlfriend enough to resist the conversion process and retain his emotions. And it sucks, and he begs Clara to turn on the inhibitor.

The Doctor, of course, wants to him to retain his humanity and doesn’t want to do it, and tries to give Danny hope by giving him that same speech he gave him in "Listen". (It was a dumb speech then, but maybe it'll work this time!) However, in order to save the planet, he finds must remove Danny's emotions, and Danny takes this opportunity to attack the Doctor by pointing out that the Doctor is completely willing to sacrifice Danny to save the Earth.

Yes, he is. We've been here before. The Doctor has to weigh both sides and make difficult decisions. That's what he does. This point has been made many times before, in firing the Moment, in "The Fires of Pompeii", in "The Girl Who Waited" (where he gives the decision to Rory). Why should he suddenly realize it now and rise to Danny's bait? And why should Danny complain? A moment ago, he wanted it done, as quickly as possible, and now he uses it to take a shot at the Doctor, forcing his beloved Clara to do it instead. Thanks a lot, honey. Danny's action doesn't make sense, and it doesn't make sense that this broke the Doctor in this scene, and thus, it felt like it was only written to tweak the audience.

And now we come to Missy. She was completely insane, which is perfect for the Master, but not cleverly insane, and that was a disappointment. In the scene with Osgood, the Master should have had some clever plan to get free. Instead, it hinged on Osgood being stupid enough to listen to her, which she should not have been - this is the person who realized that the Zygons were hiding as statues, that she could defeat her doppelganger by pulling on the scarf, and which of the two Osgoods was actually the human (and that they shouldn't say anything about it to the others). You'd also think that she's seen enough movies to not get tricked like that - when the big baddie talks to you, you immediately call in the reinforcements. (Osgood is also the latest victim of one of the most egregious Doctor Who tropes: If the Doctor asks you to be a companion while the adventure is still happening, you will die before the adventure ends.)

But I digress. Missy's escape at that point was not particularly clever or interesting, or surprising. She's crazy, but she's kind of vanilla crazy, doing and saying unexpected things, and it turns out that she had no designs of her own except to give the Doctor an army to show that she and the Doctor are the same. I much prefer Delgado's evil Master sparring with the Doctor while trying to take over the planet or the universe and Simm's gleeful malice as he poisons his cabinet (who he knows he can't trust) and dances while the world burns and the Doctor is helpless. Perhaps they were trying to say that she's trying to corrupt the Doctor, but it didn't really come across, and instead they seem to have made Missy the same femme fatale that we've already seen in River, Madame Kovarian, Tasha Lem, and Miss Delphox, who basically exist to out-talk the Doctor.

Interestingly, my husband commented that this part of the plot was basically "School Reunion", specifically the showdown between the Doctor and Brother Lassar, where Brother Lassar offers the Doctor the control of the Skasas Paradigm, so that the Doctor can correct all the things that have gone wrong. The thing is, Brother Lassar offered the Doctor the ability to do good, and he offered it to the Tenth Doctor, the darkest incarnation (except for maybe the Seventh Doctor) who was most likely to be tempted and corrupted by such power, and we see that the Doctor was about to accept, if Sarah Jane hadn't intervened. Here, the Master offered the Doctor an army, with some argument about being able to enforce good with it. The Master should have known the Doctor well enough to know that he would never accept an army, and the Doctor is not even tempted; his only hesitation was due to trying to figure out how to save the situation. The scene just didn't ring true.

And then there's the ending. First, Danny with no emotions giving a rousing speech to his soldiers. How does that work? Then he has the opportunity to come back to life, but he sends the boy he killed instead. This could have been a very emotional scene, except that the scenes with the boy had already fallen flat and caused this one to have no impact. And then the Doctor and Clara lie to each other and part - after Clara's big speech about how she would never lie to her best friend (who she's been lying to all season).

(Side note: Doctor, why are you so upset that Gallifrey wasn't in the spot that the Master said it was? You haven't even thought about the planet all season, not even once, when it should have been your sole focus. You've instead been worried about monsters under the bed and begging Clara to go traveling with you. What happened to that hope of going home that shone in your eleventh incarnation's eyes as he talked to the Curator?)

(Second side note: When I watched “The Poison Sky” for the first time, I screamed in outrage when the Doctor cleared the atmosphere by burning it off with a fireball. The science there is SO BAD. Now, granted, the bad science meter has new highs with “Kill the Moon” and “In the Forest of the Night,” but they just did the same thing again in this episode! Do they really think we don’t remember that far back?)

I’m sure I could say more, but I’ll stop here. So, no, this episode made no sense, and only seemed to be attempting to create cheap emotional thrills and rehashes of themes done a lot better previously. There were a couple of good moments. Bringing back Osgood was one, though it was very sad that she was killed off; she was an interesting character and would have made a good companion. The other was the appearance of the Brigadier, saving his daughter's life, though it's very disturbing that he flew off. It would have been far more fitting, and more heart-rending, if he had decommissioned himself once he had done his duty. As it is, you're left wondering when they'll bring back CyberBrig.

Well, I can't say I expected more from this episode, given the season. I noticed a number of callbacks to previous episodes, in that a lot of the heavy-handed things they did earlier were repeated here, which makes sense: they shoehorned things into previous episodes to try to give more weight to the finale. The "fear makes you faster" speech is one. Clara's preoccupation with lying and with trying to be the Doctor are two others. Oh, and that ridiculous "people won't remember that trees covered the entire planet" speech. This season really lacked subtlety. I almost feel like they think we’re stupid enough to need concepts pounded in, that we won’t grasp the themes if they aren’t spelled out, that we have to be told things rather than shown them, given how much talking there’s been. Talk talk talk. That was my main complaint about "Deep Breath", and it's still one of my main complaints about the show now.

Sadly, the thing that I’ve really grasped this season is that I’m glad that it’s over. This is my favorite show, almost the focus of my life, and I’m not particularly excited about the prospect of the Christmas special and season 9. That's what I mean by "Death in Heaven" is a fitting name. To be completely truthful, I love Mr. Capaldi's Doctor, as much as I love all the Doctors, but he's been given the worst stories and companions. Also, this hasn't killed my love for the rest of the show and universe, and I've said before, if I have to abandon the current show for seasons 1-6, the classics, and the audios, I will be perfectly happy. I think I’m going to go hit the bathtub and listen to a Big Finish audio now.

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( 14 comments — Leave a comment )
flowsoffire
Nov. 13th, 2014 07:27 pm (UTC)
[1/3]

Iʼm sorry the episode let you down so much. You raised a lot of good points here. Personally, I really quite enjoyed Dark Water, but not really Death in Heaven—Missy pretty much made the episode for me, her lines and Michelle Gomezʼs performance and her interactions with Capaldi basically carried it. On Dark Water I could actually feel a lot for Clara and Danny—not really Death in Heaven… couldn’t really explain the difference. Drama pushed too far, maybe. In the first part it still felt pretty relatable, to me anyway.

The Doctor […] not even being able to detect that Missy was a Time Lady, either by the innate sense mentioned many times in previous seasons or by placing his hand on her chest and feeling her heartbeat.
Yes, I wondered about that too—the lack of that innate sense is unfortunate but can be acceptable, the hand on her chest however… seriously, why do that if itʼs not to carry the reveal? (Looking up transcripts for the episodeʼs detail as I type this, and the Doctor does respond "Two hearts" to Missyʼs "Surely you felt it [who I am]". So he could tell but either it took fifteen solid minutes for the information to travel through that big brain, or he kept it quiet before, why is that we will never know.)

Thus, the really strange and unbelievable speech by the Doctor in "In the Forest of the Night" (oh, don't get me started on *that* episode) about the humans forgetting about the global sprouting of the trees actually had a point: it was to explain why the people this time don't recognize the Cybermen.
Humans never seem to remember anything. See that bit about no one remembering the Stolen Earthʼs Dalek invasion in Victory of the Daleks… Repeated memory erasure? I do not get.

Meanwhile, Clara is confronted by three Cybermen, and to not get killed immediately, she claims she's actually the Doctor. The showrunners decided at this point to try to convince the audience of this, by putting Jenna Coleman's name first in the opening credits and featuring her face in the time vortex instead of Peter Capaldi's, and you have to wonder, why?
At this point of the episode, after reading meta/fan theories, after Flatline and the foreshadowing—I was solidly convinced that there was something big going on regarding Claraʼs manipulation by Missy, and it all had a point (using and controlling her to take the Doctor to a given situation, creating a mini-Doctor who genuinely believed she was the Doctor, idk, something). As of right now I am just confused. Why all that build-up? And was Missyʼs plan seriously a) killing off Danny (we never get any hint she was involved in his walking under a car) and betting on Clara demanding her boyfriend be returned to her, or b) betting on someone Clara cared about eventually dying and leading to the aforementioned events? Where we stand right now, that scene echoes Claraʼs development that mirrors the Doctorʼs character in a few ways, fine, great—but there being no actual plot relevance to it is just massively weird. The soufflé looks rather like a crepe atm. (I expected something similarly huge for the s7 finale regarding Claraʼs identity—either something just keeps getting delayed, or it is official that the meta speculation has become way more thrilling than what the actual show delivers.)


First, there was no action. At all.
Come to think of it, the whole plot sums up as follows: Missy delivers the Doctorʼs birthday present, thus triggering the opposite reaction she wanted the character epiphany he had been longing for all season. Cue kissing. (The kissing is important to me XD Hey, this Doctor didnʼt snog much in comparison! Missy gets it all.) Danny, whose death put it all in motion, cleans up the mess. Nobody even died except for Missyʼs merry bananas slaughter: the Cybermen picked the already dead. The climax was pretty much the menace deleting itself.


Again, Cybermen fail to completely take over a human because of the power of love. It was done in “Closing Time” and it was the reason that episode failed, the unbelievability that of the thousands, even millions of people the Cybermen have managed to convert, only one person loved his child enough to resist them.
*nods along* Nothing to add there…
shivver13
Nov. 16th, 2014 11:15 pm (UTC)
Oh, so much to discuss! :)

Humans never seem to remember anything. Actually, humans used to remember just fine, normally. When the Doctor meets Donna, he mentions the Sycorax and then Canary Wharf, Donna didn't know what he was talking about, saying that she was drunk for the first and scuba-diving for the second. This implies that regular, non-clueless humans (*grin*) remember those things just fine. It's only now that humans forget globe-spanning events. (As far as "Victory of the Daleks" goes, if I remember correctly, it was only Amy that didn't remember, and that was part of the season plot, that her life and memories had been altered as part of the whole Pandorica plan. The Doctor was surprised that Amy didn't remember the Daleks, I believe, because everyone else does.)

I was solidly convinced that there was something big going on regarding Claraʼs manipulation by Missy, and it all had a point. Yes, it would be nice if it had a point. This whole thing - from the Impossible Girl to... whatever Clara is now, has just become one big mess. While I never liked her and found the Impossible Girl storyline uninteresting, at least it had a beginning, ending, and progression.

... the whole plot sums up as follows... THIS! Beautifully, succinctly summarized! I wonder if that's a good exercise as a writer, to summarize your story in five sentences or less, to prove to yourself that it's not stupid?

flowsoffire
Nov. 19th, 2014 02:44 pm (UTC)
Oh, so much to discuss! :)
^_^

Humans never seem to remember anything. Actually, humans used to remember just fine, normally. […] It's only now that humans forget globe-spanning events.
Yes, sorry—I should have specified that Moffat-era humans never seem to remember anything ;P

(As far as "Victory of the Daleks" goes, if I remember correctly, it was only Amy that didn't remember, and that was part of the season plot, that her life and memories had been altered as part of the whole Pandorica plan. The Doctor was surprised that Amy didn't remember the Daleks, I believe, because everyone else does.)
Ah, you’re right. Good point :) (Though why she would have forgotten the Daleks specifically, we don’t know… ah well.)

I wonder if that's a good exercise as a writer, to summarize your story in five sentences or less, to prove to yourself that it's not stupid?
Yes, that would be a nice test!
flowsoffire
Nov. 13th, 2014 07:27 pm (UTC)

[Re: emotion deletion] And why should Danny complain?
Calling the Doctor out on what, indeed, we already knew—Danny is used to call everyone out throughout the season, pretty much.

A moment ago, he wanted it done, as quickly as possible, and now he uses it to take a shot at the Doctor, forcing his beloved Clara to do it instead.
Well, Clara wonʼt have to do it instead of the Doctor—Clara requested the Doctorʼs help in her task, and the Doctor didnʼt only turn her down, but tried to talk them both out of their common decision by stating Danny would destroy Clara once he was fully rid of emotions (supposedly true, but Danny canʼt accept to hear that) and then teaching Danny a lesson about how hurting is very good and he should not crave to be put to rest, before he proceeded to try to get him to find information. Danny answers him why he should gtfo—both Danny and Claraʼs stand seems to be "you wonʼt help us (unless it is for your very own reasons, supposedly greater and more important than our personal torment) so you will leave us alone". They are wrapped in the pain and grief, whereas the Doctor is trying to do what matters in the big picture. It is not very different from what he did on the Orient Express—in fact, it is a perfect parallel: the dying are beyond saving, so they must deliver all information available to them and then only, but it is deeply difficult on a human level. The impact it has on the Doctor, indeed, is not perfectly coherent with his reactions there, I guess he knows he might be losing Clara there, plus heavy dramatic effect.


In the scene with Osgood, the Master should have had some clever plan to get free. Instead, it hinged on Osgood being stupid enough to listen to her, which she should not have been
Oh yes. Thank goodness for Missyʼs bitchy lines saving that scene. XD

She's crazy, but she's kind of vanilla crazy, doing and saying unexpected things, and it turns out that she had no designs of her own except to give the Doctor an army to show that she and the Doctor are the same.
I am conflicted about that aspect of Twelve/Missy—Iʼm a sucker for villains and adore unconditional, sometimes borderline-obsessive love, so it was pretty much a given that I would go right for that ship, and I did. XD However, it canʼt be overlooked that the Masterʼs gender switch is accompanied by the evil plan becoming about giving the Doctor something as opposed to seizing power for herself. I honestly wouldnʼt care if it was just about Missy, but in the context of how Moffat handles all of his female characters… *sighs* I probably neednʼt say more. Iʼm going Watsonian here and working on each regeneration being a reaction to the former incarnation—Simmʼs Master was possessed by the drumbeat in his mind, the call to war, he seized power twice, made humanity entirely to his image and refused the Doctorʼs various offers to help and attempts to find another way for the two of them ("Would it stop, then? The noise in my head?"/"I can help."/"I don't know what I'd be without that noise."/"I wonder what I'd be, without you."). Missy somewhat mirrors both. She is, supposedly, the Master without the drums (were they a new!Who thing or did they exist all along btw?). If the Master had come to the point when he didnʼt know who he was anymore without that neverending call beating down on him, tormenting and driving him… left without it, he would turn to his only other constant—the Doctor. Except that instead of opposing him, she wants to get him back, catch a hold of what she could once have had ("I can help"/"I wonder what Iʼd be, without you."), but on her terms (pretty much turning Tenʼs offer around, luring him closer to her way of life instead of adopting his). So that is my reasoning so I can ship the hell out of them without feeling bad about the characterʼs abrupt shift. XD But really it is Moffat and women…
shivver13
Nov. 16th, 2014 11:33 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I know I simplified that scene a bit too much. It just didn't ring true for me. Interestingly, I just listened to "Revenge of the Swarm" (Seven/Ace/Hex), and, apart from being a really good audio, it had a scene where Hex calls out the Doctor in exactly the same way, and the Doctor basically says, yes, that's what I do. And it worked so well. In a way, it feels like the TV show worked so hard to establish Capaldi's Doctor as so very alien, but when it came down to the important scene, the Time Lord who views things differently from humans, his Doctor capitulated and reacted like a human.

Stuff about the Master: Sigh. You know, I try very hard to give Moffat the benefit of the doubt, but more and more, I can't just get away from the opinion that he just can't write women. I am so tired of these female characters who are so obsessed with their men that there's nothing else in their life. River, Missy. Clara and Amy are only defined by their relationships with their men (Doctor and Danny, and Doctor and Rory). I compare them with the variety we had with RTD's women, and it's not favorable. Rose was obsessive about the Doctor, yes, but Martha, while in love with him, never gave up on her ambition to become a doctor, and Donna of course never strayed in that direction, wanting only to see the universe and do good - and all of them cared deeply about their families. Argh. Thinking about this makes me tear my hair out.
flowsoffire
Nov. 19th, 2014 07:21 pm (UTC)
In a way, it feels like the TV show worked so hard to establish Capaldi's Doctor as so very alien, but when it came down to the important scene, the Time Lord who views things differently from humans, his Doctor capitulated and reacted like a human.
Quite true…

Sigh. You know, I try very hard to give Moffat the benefit of the doubt, but more and more, I can't just get away from the opinion that he just can't write women. I am so tired of these female characters who are so obsessed with their men that there's nothing else in their life. River, Missy. Clara and Amy are only defined by their relationships with their men (Doctor and Danny, and Doctor and Rory).
Unfortunately, I agree. Moffat gets accused a lot of misogyny—I think that he wants to portray strong women, and believes he does… but he gets it wrong, mostly by a heavy lack of nuance. First, he needs to realize that a woman’s only way to assert herself is not to flirt fearlessly and know how to hold a gun. It’s great to see girls who don’t take any shit, but at this point their reactions are way, way too similar. The cocky, sexy, sexualized Moffat girls. And it’s so glaring, it robs all attention from what makes them unique (Amy had a lot of potential in Eleventh Hour and her complicated history is interesting, Clara’s nanny side and dynamics with children is something I always quite enjoyed, plus the control freak thing and the compulsive lying were also interesting in their own right, when handled insightfully). You feel like it’s the same one over and over again, all the way back to Sally Sparrow and Madame de Pompadour. It’s actually not, but it feels that way! And yes, what you said about the being all about their men, of course. The feeling I get is that Moffat writes what he wants to see, what he thinks is sexy and epic and cool—his very own fantasy. The confident, kick-ass, flirty woman, and the all-or-nothing romances in which the other is your everything. It’s okay to write what you love—it’s not when it gets in the way of clever characterization and variety. And for the romances, honestly I’m all for mad love stories that go way beyond what is actually healthy, all for the sake of passion—but it needs to feel balanced. In that regard, Amy/Rory probably worked a bit better than the others, what with Rory waiting two thousand years outside a box and all—they were each other’s everything. The men also feel very strongly, but they often feel more grounded than the women, more independent. It depends on the cases, River was an archaeologist and refused to travel with the Doctor, but had her very own adventures—but all we see is the times she calls for him…

Frankly, when I get to the bottom of things, the thing that makes me angriest about Moffat is the fact that his mistakes are so recurring. So many patterns. Because I stated it above—his characters also have unique personalities. His portrayal of women is problematic on many aspects, but they’re far from being always the damsels in distress. He’s got talent. And yet he keeps messing up, and always in the same ways. I swear, I get that feeling that someone somewhere needs to make a checklist and tell him "DON’T FREAKING DO THIS AND THIS AND THAT ANYMORE" and if he just questioned himself and saw the flaws in what he does, the quality would just get a crazy boost. Because it’s the little things that keep coming over and over again…

shivver13
Nov. 22nd, 2014 06:27 pm (UTC)
I always wonder whether or not there's anyone at the BBC who has the power to look over Moffat's designs and plans and tell him no. I suppose in my own industry (computer games), there's always someone at the top who gets to decide how something is going to go, and in DW's case, that's Moffat. I think he really needs someone doing a reality check on him.

One thing I noticed recently (a few weeks back, not when I wrote my most recent story)... The companions from RTD's era are the Defender of Earth, the Woman Who Walked the Earth, and the Most Important Woman in the Universe. The companions from Moffat's era are the Girl Who Waited and the Impossible Girl. The former are women, the latter are girls. Part of that is definitely the attitude of the Doctor giving the nickname - Eleven was definitely far more prone to use the word "girl" than Ten - but part has to come from the writer and how he views his characters.
flowsoffire
Nov. 23rd, 2014 08:47 pm (UTC)
I always wonder whether or not there's anyone at the BBC who has the power to look over Moffat's designs and plans and tell him no. I suppose in my own industry (computer games), there's always someone at the top who gets to decide how something is going to go, and in DW's case, that's Moffat. I think he really needs someone doing a reality check on him.
*nods* Yes, I absolutely agree on that. Maybe not someone who'd be able to completely veto things, but at least give criticism he'd be forced to listen to!

Yes, that's a very good point about the women vs. the girls. Moffat also really goes with the fairytale mood vs. something more realistic, aka characters that are less grounded and real, like we discussed in another comment thread, less relatable, less rounded—girls that the Doctor whirls away into his box… (And the word "woman" is laced with an air of seduction, like when it is used for River. Mmmm.)
flowsoffire
Nov. 19th, 2014 07:22 pm (UTC)
I compare them with the variety we had with RTD's women, and it's not favorable. Rose was obsessive about the Doctor, yes, but Martha, while in love with him, never gave up on her ambition to become a doctor, and Donna of course never strayed in that direction, wanting only to see the universe and do good - and all of them cared deeply about their families.
What I love about RTD characters is how grounded and real they feel, how deeply relatable. They’re everyone and yet they’re unique. They have families, backgrounds, grief and private pains, dreams. It’s okay that Moffat’s are built in a different way, but… more variety! He did that with the male interest this time, Danny felt awfully like a second Rory at the very start but then he naturally grew. Honestly, take away the flirting and damn cockiness and it’ll already be a lot easier to see how each of his women are special in their own right.
shivver13
Nov. 22nd, 2014 06:32 pm (UTC)
Grounded and real. Absolutely. Which is why the devastation the Doctor wreaked on their families hit home so hard. And why the promises of "we're going to show you that traveling with the Doctor has consequences for the companion" that they were making before Series 8 started rang so hollow.

It amazed me that Amy's parents were a throwaway for one episode, and Clara's were the same, though they brought her grandmother back for one melodramatic little scene. At least they gave Rory's dad a little bit, though it's sad they never filmed his final scene, when the Doctor goes to him and tells him what happened to Amy and Rory.
flowsoffire
Nov. 23rd, 2014 08:53 pm (UTC)
Indeed—and tbh, I didn't feel like they lived up to that promise at all… Completely agreeing about the Pond and Oswald families as well. Especially since Clara lost her mother, there was room for a lot more character development on that. Brian was nicer, at least we had that…
flowsoffire
Nov. 13th, 2014 07:27 pm (UTC)
The Master should have known the Doctor well enough to know that he would never accept an army, and the Doctor is not even tempted; his only hesitation was due to trying to figure out how to save the situation. The scene just didn't ring true.
Yes, she was basically just deluding herself. The common points between them exist, but their perspectives are entirely opposed. Really, the whole point was to eventually answer that "Am I a good man?" and move on to the next thing. XD

after Clara's big speech about how she would never lie to her best friend.
Lol, bless you Clara, don’t even try.

(Side note: Doctor, why are you so upset that Gallifrey wasn't in the spot that the Master said it was? You haven't even thought about the planet all season, not even once, when it should have been your sole focus.)
This is Moffat, the big emotional processes happen offscreen…

Well, I think I’ve rambled enough. Indeed, it’s over… as far as I’m concerned, the second half of this season was way better than the first but the writing still often went all over the place. I… don’t know what to expect for the special and season to come, but that’s quite far into the future, so. In the meantime there are classics, and let’s face it, a lot of Twelve/Missy shipping on my end. XD
shivver13
Nov. 16th, 2014 11:37 pm (UTC)
Lol, bless you Clara, don’t even try. This made me laugh out loud. My coworkers looked at me funny. I need to stop reading LJ at work.

Yes, the second half of the season was better than the first, well, except for "In the Forest of the Night", which still makes me shudder when I think about it. I am not looking forward to the Christmas special, where the Doctor is going to make everything all right for Clara. My husband is convinced that he'll find a way to resurrect Danny, since Moffat can't allow a character to stay dead. Ah well, I'm just going to concentrate on remembering how well Capaldi did and feel bad for the stories that they gave him.
flowsoffire
Nov. 19th, 2014 07:43 pm (UTC)
Lol, random laughter in public ranks pretty high in the list of Fandom Problems ;)

Haha, your husband has a point… I don't know, to be honest. Not particularly thrilled at the idea of the special either, I'll just see what comes out of it ;)

Sounds like a good way to handle things :P
( 14 comments — Leave a comment )

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